Gender Wars: The Rise Of The Alpha Female Through The Eyes Of Modern Men
Welcome back to the #SecureTheBigBag & Love Unapologetically Summit recap series. Host Victoria Jenn, alongside Cara Alwill, Troy Bigby, Dren Starr, and Swalé Nunez, dive deep into the dynamics of modern relationships and the evolving roles of men and women. This episode, filled with raw and honest discussions, explores how men perceive the rise of the 'Alpha Female' and the impact on relationships, work, and self-identity
Follow the guests:
Cara Alwill: https://www.instagram.com/thechampagnediet.com
Troy Bigby: https://www.thedevilsreef.com
Dren Starr: https://www.instagram.com/drenstarr
Swalé Nunez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/swalenunez
If you liked this episode, you'll love our next one—it's packed with similar insights and inspiration!
How to Protect Your Ideas: Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents | Domonique Price Esq.
LIMITED TIME ONLY: FREE Workbook
Top Hacks For Entrepreneurs
Claim it Here: https://www.victoriajenn.com/freeworkbook2025
Your opinion matters! Help us improve the podcast. Complete Our 1min Survey Here: https://forms.gle/iEDvZFiTqQuKCsVH7
Join Our VIP Email List & Never Miss an Episode: Sign Up here: https://www.victoriajenn.com/bankingoncultura_vip
Connect with our Host Victoria Jenn Rodriguez
Banking On Cultura:
Don't forget to tag #BankingOnCultura or @ us to let us know what you think of this week's episode!
Full Transcript:
Hola, mi gente. Welcome back to Banking on Cultura. I am your host, Victoria Jen Rodriguez, and I'm so excited for you to be here because the next few episodes are going to take you on a behind the scenes journey of what went down at the Secure the Big Bag and Love Unapologetically Summit. I hosted this event in November, 2023, along with my partner, Cara Alwill, and we just got so So much great feedback and literally lives were transformed that I wanted to bring this to
[00:00:34] the banking on cultura community, especially as we are approaching a new year and thinking about who we want to be, right?
[00:00:41] And why do we want to be this person? And what is it going to take in order for us? To get there. So I welcome you to join me on this journey of how you are going to increase your streams of income entering into 2024. But most importantly, how are you going to love yourself unapologetically, and those [00:01:00] around you that you care about.
[00:01:01] So grab your notebook, grab your pen, because mega gems were dropped. And I hope you use this information. And really think critically about, you know, how am I going to set myself up for success as we enter this new year? And I brought in the best of the best experts to break this down. So there's going to be tangible strategies that you can actually implement immediately.
[00:01:25] And make sure when you tune in that you subscribe and leave us a review. I want to know what you think y'all. I want to make sure that we are constantly providing you value. Alright y'all, so, enjoy!
[00:01:37] Alright y'all, so this next panel is a part two to an event that I hosted last year, which Cara was a part of, called Gender Wars, and I was inspired to host that because Y'all, it's hard out here being single, it's hard out here being a woman on the grind and [00:02:00] trying to find A fella that isn't intimidated by me, and where we're able to connect, and I think a lot of that has to do with the shift that we're all experiencing in terms of how women are moving and grooving, how we're collecting these coins.
[00:02:18] Securing the big bag and just this new wave of self realization and confidence that just didn't exist before, because quite frankly, there weren't opportunities before for us to do so. And at the same time, we have fellas who are also going through their own transformation. They're trying to adjust to this new wave and this new era, because for many of us, we were raised.
[00:02:40] a particular way, right? Woman does this, man does that, man doesn't discuss feelings, woman does all the feeling stuff, right? So, all of us are preconditioned to operate a specific way, and now we have this new wave, and this new era of empowerment, this new era of rediscovery, and so we're both, [00:03:00] both genders.
[00:03:01] are trying to figure it out, but there is a tension that exists between both genders, right? We see it at the office, we see it in business, and we also see it in love. And so last year's conversation went so amazingly well. We got so much great feedback that we were like, we got to run it back. We gotta, we gotta run it back and do a part two.
[00:03:20] So this conversation is going to be The Rise of Alpha Woman Through the Eyes of Modern Men, right? So we have a full of modern men here in the building. And they're going to, uh, keep it real. Keep it authentic. Keep it super raw. This is a safe space, right? So we're going to get into the nitty gritty.
[00:03:41] It's probably going to get spicy, all right, which we love because that type of transparency is where the transformation happens. Right? All right. So let's get this party started. Yes.
[00:03:51] Cara Alwill: All right. All right. Go ahead, Kara.
[00:03:53] Start with the question of the day. It's come up a couple of times. This is, we're going right out to the group.
[00:03:58] So whoever wants to go first and answer [00:04:00] this one, are men really intimidated by successful women?
[00:04:04] Dren Starr: I think it's a turn on.
[00:04:05] Cara Alwill: Ooh, okay. Explain.
[00:04:07] Dren Starr: Because it is, like, usually men, men run things. So like, whenever you see a female that's a boss, like to me, that's mad attractive. Like, I'm like, all right, she's, I call it girl gang.
[00:04:16] I'm like, yo, she's running, she's running shit. I could curse here, right?
[00:04:21] Victoria Jenn: Safe space.
[00:04:24] Dren Starr: So yeah, to me, that's, that's attractive because I like to be with a woman that I know that's a boss, that's in control.
[00:04:29] Cara?: Oh yeah, should we do a quick
[00:04:30] Victoria Jenn: intros first before we throw you guys into the fire? Let's finish this thought and then we'll have them introduce themselves.
[00:04:34] We're just so excited to get into it. We're just really like chomping at the bit. We're waiting to hear from the others on the panel.
[00:04:39] Troy Bigby: Oh, um, yeah, I guess for me, I love confidence. So, um, you know, female bosses for me is, is not just a thing, it's a way of life. So, um, I think I'm super confident, probably overconfident enough to compensate for the women that are in my life.
[00:04:51] But I love that pushback. And I love that kind of stepping into your womanhood and being about what you say you're about.
[00:04:57] Victoria Jenn: You're going to keep it real.
[00:04:58] Swale: Um, what's the question? Are men
[00:04:58] Cara?: really intimidated by successful women?
[00:04:58] Swale: Uh, When I speak it'll be reiterating what the [00:05:00] guy said. I think every time I hear that, my first thought is, where are you finding the men that are intimidated by you?
[00:05:06] The internet.
[00:05:07] Cara?: Yeah.
[00:05:09] Swale: Exactly. Honestly, and we talked about this when we had our little, uh, our pre, uh, prior to being on stage, uh, before. Honestly, uh, to Dren's point it's like, Every time I see my lady in a, uh, authoritative, uh, position, I think of different positions I could put her in, because it's It is
[00:05:29] Cara?: Oh, really?
[00:05:29] It's like a Um
[00:05:30] Victoria Jenn: I like that.
[00:05:32] Swale: So, for me, it's not intimidating at all. Um, and I remember, uh, one of the conversations I had with my lady the first time I met her, I told her, hey, um, and this is something I thought about while the prior panel was happening. Um, you kind of mentioned being authentic and I said there's no guarantee that we'll be together forever.
[00:05:49] Um, but the last thing I wanna happen is when, if this were to ever, uh, we are at, if we were to ever separate that you feel that you stop doing what you or stop pursuing whatever your, your goals are because of me. So my job is to create a space for [00:06:00] you to feel like you can spread your wings as much as possible.
[00:06:02] Um, and I think a lot of the times, maybe in situations, if you're not that honest. Women sometimes feel like they have to take a back seat. Well, for me, it's like, no, let me create a space. Because I don't want you to blame me for you not being your best self. And when I see you, when you, when you tell me these are the things you want to accomplish, and I help you get to that point, it turns me on.
[00:06:19] Because like, man, right? So, and, and I think if, if men do that, which I, from what it sounds from the panel, we do that. So I, it goes back to my original question. Where are you finding the men? that are not, that are intimidated by you.
[00:06:29] Cara?: Simmer down!
[00:06:31] Victoria Jenn: I think this is a great opportunity for intros.
[00:06:34] Cara Alwill: Yes, let's do it.
[00:06:35] Victoria Jenn: Troy, would you like to go first?
[00:06:37] Troy Bigby: Yeah, I guess I'm the streets here, so, um, I'm the single guy, so Troy Biggs, uh, Troy Bigby, um, I run Devil's Reef Cinnamon Spiced Rum, so I'm the global president for K Street Spirits.
[00:06:46] Dren Starr: I'm Dren Starr, I represent D’Ussé Cognac, it's a luxury brand under the Rock Nation Bacardi umbrella. And I'm the brand ambassador.
[00:06:52] Swale: Suale, innovator, creative, I run an identity platform and I own a consulting service around [00:07:00] ideation and creativity.
[00:07:00] Victoria Jenn: All of them are being extremely humble right now.
[00:07:03] Cara Alwill: I know, I'm like, guys, you're amazing. Shout it from the rooftops. Dren, this question's for you. So you and your partner work together.
[00:07:10] We discussed this on our panel prep call, right? You work for the same company. How do you help your partner transition from boss mode into relationship mode, right? Because you guys travel together, you do events together, you're always with each other. Um, does it ever kind of, does her, you know, I know that you're attracted to the fact that she's in control, but like, I'm sure that she's, you want her to be more in her feminine, if you will, at home.
[00:07:31] Right. So what does that transition look like for you guys?
[00:07:34] Dren Starr: I mean, it's cool in the beginning there was little, you know, little hiccups, like every relationship because we, we actually both came from, obviously, you know, we, I was married, divorced. I went through all of that drama. Um, but, um, yeah, in the beginning it was.
[00:07:45] You know, she'll be on her conference call sometimes, and I'll be in the crib chilling. You know, there's a lot that goes on with what we do. And then there'll be times where, you know, some conferences, some of them are good, some of them are bad. And then the energy just keeps on going. And I'm like, [00:08:00] yo, slow down, relax, chill.
[00:08:01] Like, we're not, that hat is not on in the crib right now. You know what I'm saying? So like, it was an easy transition. It was just like one conversation. And then after that Everything was like pretty cool. We, we, we didn't have to like bump heads. Like, it was just like, you know, like you guys said before on other panels, you just have to have a conversation to be transparent.
[00:08:20] Cara Alwill: She was receptive to it.
[00:08:21] Dren Starr: Very. Yeah.
[00:08:22] Victoria Jenn: So, since you guys have figured it out, what are tips that you have to separate the two? Like, when you're at home, you check work at the door, like how, what are some tips you can give other people? Because Because a lot of us are all killing it professionally and sometimes that comes home with us and it's hard to like turn off.
[00:08:41] Dren Starr: I think just being honest and just have, just have, you know, being able to communicate with each other. I think that's, that's what it really is. And being that we do work together a lot, I know when there's tension going on. So like my comments are just let her, cause I know what's going on. I can't act like I don't know what's going on.
[00:08:53] You know, I'm saying like we, we, we deal with things nationally, she's globally. So like there's work coming from more different types of angles. And [00:09:00] so me understanding her role in her position, I could be like, hi, baby. Good. Like I'll let her calm down, you know, half an hour, everything's good. And she'll be like, ah, but again, it's not between us, it's, it's, it's the work and I'm privy to a lot of information that a lot of people are not.
[00:09:16] So I'm more understanding than the average. Cat will be like, let's say if she was with another dude that was in the same industry. He's not, there's no way in the world it will work because he's not going to be privy to what she really does. I am. And, and it's, you know, it's on both sides of the token.
[00:09:30] You know what I'm saying?
[00:09:31] Victoria Jenn: So for those who are, may or may not be following, so you and your boothing actually work together?
[00:09:35] Dren Starr: Yes. So I work with the brand on Roc Nation. She works for the marketing team. So we're both of her clients. So she has Bacardi as a client and she has Roc Nation as a client. So she does both sides. We flying around the world, literally like every other week, one way on a flight, we're going somewhere where there's been this vacation. But if you're not. It's very hard to, to, especially from the backgrounds that we, you know, we're, we're both Latino. We're not dumb. We're both born and raised in the hood.
[00:09:56] So we know what goes on when you live this type of lifestyle. We don't live a [00:10:00] normal lifestyle. We just don't. I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? We're, we're around all these celebrities all day. We're around all these A listers and it's like, you have to have a lot of trust in your partner to be in this, in this industry.
[00:10:12] And if we didn't do things together and travel, it just wouldn't work. And I'm just being real.
[00:10:15] Victoria Jenn: So what do you guys think about the term alpha female? And I want to start with Swale on this.
[00:10:22] Swale: What does alpha female mean?
[00:10:23] Victoria Jenn: Hmm. I've never been asked that question.
[00:10:26] Cara Alwill: From my understanding, I could be wrong. It's a woman who takes control, who is super independent, who goes after what she wants, right? Who doesn't take that traditional submissive role in life in general.
[00:10:39] Swale: Let's just think about this for a second. What generally happens when you have two alphas in a tribe?
[00:10:45] Cara Alwill: They kill each
[00:10:45] other. Yeah.
[00:10:46] Swale: So, um, I think that's the challenge. Inherently, you're setting, we are setting ourselves up for failure. Um, because the concept of alpha means in a group, there's somebody that takes the lead.
[00:10:58] You both can't be [00:11:00] alphas. So if you're saying when I leave the house, I'm alpha, you're not truly alpha. Because the moment I would imagine that you, because you, you're yearning for an alpha male. So this idea that now you become second to that alpha male, then you were never alpha. It's almost like you put on this, this thing to walk out and to face the world.
[00:11:18] Um, and that's my, my, my, my issue with it because. In my relationships, what I think, when I think about it, even beyond the one, uh, that I've, I'm in now, for a long period of time, if I just think, think back of all my relationships, there's some competitive things that happen there, and that started to trigger the demise of the relationship.
[00:11:35] Where it's like, I don't appreciate you for your role because I feel like you're in competition with me. Um, and I, I remember always, um, finding myself saying this thing, like, I'm actually, we're on the same team, I'm trying to help you. Um, and it can be a challenge for a lot of people because it's easy to say, Oh, I'm with somebody who's actively doing things, but when you're not doing the same thing, it can kind of beat on you psychologically.
[00:11:55] Right? And then you start to try to compete. And I think that is [00:12:00] where a lot of relationships start to kind of hit their breaking point. and the reason I'm saying that, so now when you inherently go into this, I, this, this idea of a relationship as a alpha female, When an alpha female meets her preferred alpha male, then you have two alphas in a single domain.
[00:12:16] And then that is where inherently in any outside of just human relationship, any relationship in general, two alphas, one has to show dominance. And that in itself to me causes a problem and that's my, my reason why I don't necessarily like the term alpha female. I think for women in general, don't try to assume what is historically a man's responsibility.
[00:12:36] And because you, you've had to do these things, um, you want to take on these men, this manly title. Like be woman and be, and just enjoy it, embrace that. And I don't feel like you have to now. Get these titles that men assigned to themselves for you to, um, kind of validate what you've done here.
[00:12:54] Accomplishments. I, I think you could be a beautiful woman. A hard worker who is a, whatever titles you give, I [00:13:00] don't want to say boss ass or whatever it is. Um, but you can be all that without being an alpha. You can do that without being an alpha female, right? And, and that's been my challenge. It's like, I don't want to compete with you.
[00:13:12] Cara Alwill: Right, right. Like, how did, so how do you, how do you want your woman to turn that on and off? Because we have to be strong. We have to be boss bitches, right? Like, we've got to make money. And we love it. We're passionate. So how do women like shift over then into this more feminine energy that you guys are talking about when it comes to love?
[00:15:04] Cara Alwill: You don't have to answer. Let's ask
[00:15:06] Victoria Jenn: Troy. Why are you putting the mic down?
[00:15:06] Troy Bigby: So yeah, I guess Um, one point that I'll make that, you know, might have slipped the room is while they said, um, that men assign themselves, right? The idea that a male decided that this is what determines an alpha person is completely subjective, right?
[00:15:27] There's no, you know, it's a term, right? You know, people that know me know I'm really big on words. I'm really big on writing, etc. It's, it's something that, you know, just don't assume there's a particular language or way that this has to mean this is this thing, right? Whatever you want to call it, you know, boss ass B, whatever that is, right?
[00:15:49] If that's who you're going to be, then Um, you know, work towards being whatever the almost perfect or perfect version of that is for you, but it doesn't mean that you're [00:16:00] directly in competition with someone who is male or female, right? Um, it's, it's, you know, I, you know, I, I Every time I hear competition, Jren and I are in the same space in alcohol, and I'm like, you know how much money alcohol makes globally, right?
[00:16:11] Like, we don't have to compete. It's very much a, um, kind of a black and brown thing to create competition in a space that you share. Because in other relationships, you don't hear Jeff Bezos wife. Or Jeff Bezos talking about I'm the alpha male of the house. It's just not a topic of conversation. I think it's something that's very, um, small in the space that we grow in.
[00:16:30] Because we're all, you know, no matter where you came from, we're all trying to fight for the top role. In the home, right? Or outside. And I think that's something that's just inherent to our culture. And it's something that kind of always predicts the demise of any relationship or anything that you're trying to do is creating this kind of sub chasm of competition that doesn't really exist.
[00:16:54] Victoria Jenn: I want to come back to you, uh, because you actually, uh, are business partners. With [00:17:00] your beau thing, with your wife, and you guys are also parents. Correct. Right? So what does this look like on a day to day basis, and how do you give each other space to be each of those things without killing each other?
[00:17:12] Swale: Whoa, that's a loaded question. Um, how do we give each other space? We ask for it. Um, I think, uh, there's this assumption that I know what she feels when she feels it. And she knows what I feel when I feel it. And, um, we romanticize this idea is like your man is supposed to know your inner thoughts and know exactly how you feel when you feel it.
[00:17:35] Because that's what social media and the movies tell us, right? Oh, he finishes my sentence. Oh, he, oh, he completes me and, oh, I don't even have to ask for it because earlier they said, Oh, when I, when I go out, uh, he, he knows what to order for me. And it's, it's like, why are we giving men this mythical, um, uh, like capabilities?
[00:17:54] Like we're not super men, we're, we're human beings just like yourself. I guess you, you, you, you do [00:18:00] this thing where it's like, instead of just asking for it, I. Um, I also, I'm a, a, a professor at, at Parsons, um, and I just left class before I came here. And as the class ended, I, I asked the students, did you get what you want from, from the class?
[00:18:12] And they were like, no, it was missing this one thing. And then my question is, why didn't you ask for it? Well, I thought it was going to come, but what made you think that it was going to come? Because if you have the opportunity to ask, why not ask for it? So, this morning the conversation went like this.
[00:18:26] Hey, I want to go to a, um, A Pilates class tomorrow morning at 9 a. m. Is that cool? Yes, that's cool. And I responded, I want to go to a boxing class at 1 p. m. That's cool. Um, usually my daughter goes to, to tennis at 9 a. m. But she says, I need some time for myself. And it's on my, and, and she's like, they have an opportunity to, you can, at the class she goes, there's a space for kids, do you want me to take the kid?
[00:18:49] I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'll keep the, I'll keep, uh, I'll keep her, and then you get exactly what you want out of it. But all it took was for her to ask, because in times past, it was like, no, he should know that I need this time, [00:19:00] because I'm a mother, and I, I run my law firm, and, uh, I'm a partner, and I'm there, and it's like, no, because, guess what, while you're doing that, I'm still a father, I'm still a partner.
[00:19:10] It's still my responsibility to take care of this household. So I'm not, as much as we are in tune, we, we still have separate lives in this domain and it's okay to ask. It's okay for your partner to not know your every move or what makes you happy or all these things. It's okay to just say, Hey, I'd appreciate it if you did this.
[00:19:28] And you know what the partner, if they, if they appreciate you more. If they appreciate you as much as you would appreciate that, they would say, yes, I will do it for you. And that's how we make it work. We just ask and then hope that it's reciprocated on both sides.
[00:19:38] Cara Alwill: I'm feeling
[00:19:39] very called out.
[00:19:43] In a good way, it's like therapy.
[00:19:46] Victoria Jenn: Of course, that's why it's happening here. Amen.
[00:19:50] Girl 4: Who was at a different level because I think a lot of women here, that's what we may be doing, which is not you. She's not wrong. No,
[00:19:50] Music 2: no, no, no. Troy
[00:19:50] Girl 4: is single
[00:19:50] Music 2: and
[00:19:50] Victoria Jenn: ready to mingle. Just so you guys know. We're going to raffle him off
[00:19:50] Cara?: at the end. Yes, we're going to raffle him
[00:19:50] Victoria Jenn: and it's going to be
[00:19:50] Cara?: beautiful.
[00:19:50] Someone's going to win a date.
[00:19:50] Dren Starr: Well, she, to, to, to feed on to what you're saying, um, that's why my last relationship didn't work. Um, because we would clash and like, you know, like, like Swale was saying, it was like we would [00:20:00] clash and it just wasn't, listen, we both can't, somebody got to act right, you know what I'm saying? And no, and I, and I'm saying that because, you know, whether maybe I was wrong, I'm just saying like my story was, my story is crazy.
[00:20:12] Like I was in prison, I was on parole. So like I had my back against the wall 24 seven, so I was like, I was working on eggshells. So I had all of those elements, and then I had to make sure that this woman was happy. But I'm finding out that she's trying to compete with me. And it's like, we can't compete.
[00:20:29] Like, we just, I know what I'm doing. You're trying to figure out what you're doing. But you're trying to stop me from doing what I'm doing because you, you want to bug out? And then I'm on parole, so I can't, I can't really tell her by herself because she called the cops on me. I didn't even do nothing. You see what I'm saying?
[00:20:46] So like, I gotta tread lightly, but And then I'm the one going to therapy. I'm the one putting my best foot forward. And the therapist is telling her, like, Yo, she don't want to hear it. So I'm like, alright, I know it's not me, but we just had to get another person in here to [00:21:00] make sure that You know what I'm saying?
[00:21:03] That I'm on the right type of time. You know what I'm saying? She's like, Oh, we gotta change therapist. I said, no, no, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. So the reason why me and my new partner work out is because we've both been through These challenges and these obstacles, we both, we both went to get the help that we needed to evolve in life and that's why it's working right now.
[00:21:23] Cara Alwill: All right, we've got one for Troy. So you are the single guy of the group. You're also a super successful entrepreneur. Do you feel that you are ready and available for a relationship?
[00:21:36] Troy Bigby: No.
[00:21:37] Victoria Jenn: Wow, that's different.
[00:21:38] I love the honesty. Because the last one, he said yes. The last one, he said yes.
[00:21:44] Um, I think, um,
[00:21:44] Troy Bigby: so what I'll say is this, I am, um, I have always wanted to be an entrepreneur and a creative and I just kind of got the space to be able to do it on my own terms.
[00:21:53] And so, when you're in that space of, and you know, Dren and Swale, you know, kind of know this as well. When you're in that space of like, [00:22:00] hyper focus, it's very difficult to parse your time out for personal endeavors. Right? Just full transparency, right? It's, it's, it's selfish, right? So, I mean, I've tried to do the dating thing in the past and been like, Ah, let me just take stock of like, where I'm putting my time.
[00:22:16] And, If I would much rather prefer to be on that business call or be taking a flight to go handle business, then try to figure out what you want to eat for dinner. You know what I mean? Like, Like, that's just But, I'll say that to say, um, I think that I'm able to do a very good job of giving a person 100 percent of what they want, but that doesn't mean you're getting 100 percent of me.
[00:22:36] Right? Um, so I think that's the difference. I mean, listen, and I've been, I've been out on dates and I do that thing. Maybe I'm in the streets. I don't know
[00:22:43] Victoria Jenn: you in the streets.
[00:22:45] Troy Bigby: I will, I will, I will, I will affectionately plead the fifth. Um, but I'm a detail oriented person. So I'm the kind of guy that's like, Oh, you'd like this food or you're allergic to this or you're this.
[00:22:54] And so for you, I think what happens at least for me is if I do go out, you're like, Oh, he gets [00:23:00] me. Right. Right. Um, but I'm up all night working, so it's just very easy for me to go parse off two hours for dinner and go home and get back to it. Um, and I think when it starts to step in the direction of like, Oh my God, I really like him.
[00:23:11] It's really going this way. And I'm just kind of like, you don't know what my lifestyle is really like when we're not at dinner. And then you get a glimpse of that lifestyle and you're like, Oh, wow, this is not what I signed up for. So I like to just be very upfront and say, Hey, look, you can get these things and it's probably a hundred percent for you, but it just isn't going to be what fulfills me.
[00:23:29] Cara Alwill: Well, you know what I love about that? First of all, thank you for your honesty, and I, I give men so much credit when they're honest, and women, like, there was a time I wasn't ready for it, and I would tell people that. Um, something else that's really interesting that I've researched, and this is just science, this is not an opinion, men's brains are wired differently than women's brains, right?
[00:23:46] So men are wired to think very linearly. So you're, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. You're like, this is my focus. Women's brains are wired like this. Spider webs, basically, like we can think we can do many things at one time. And I think that's why a lot of women [00:24:00] who are in positions where they're running businesses also really crave a relationship.
[00:24:04] Like it's rare that you hear women say, no, I'm just focused on my business right now. And if we do not speaking for everybody, it's because we have a guard up or a wall up and it's like, I don't want to get hurt anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:16] Troy Bigby: Yeah. So I think, you know, Swallow and I talk like every week. And so our thing is we're always.
[00:24:21] We are hyper analytical. So, you know, you can ask me a question. Um, I do not have an emotional response to it. Right? So I think, you know, I've learned to take my business hat off when I'm in the presence of friends or on dates because it will go from, you know, hey, what do you want to have for dinner to so what do you think about this business concept?
[00:24:43] And I guess the caveat there too is I'm in business with my older brother. So, I have to turn off being the younger brother every day when we talk business, because he wants to lean on the, you're my younger brother thing, and I'm like, no, this is the way that we have to run this business. And so it's a switch for me, which I [00:25:00] think doesn't, you know, Swally and I, you know, he does this as well.
[00:25:03] A lot of our friends as a group, we do that also, but that's just how we're wired, right? And everybody, especially women, as to your point, aren't really wired to see that switch go off. And I've had to learn to be like, Hey, so listen, we're talking about business, right? Um, so if we're talking about business, just understand that I am not going to be emotional or have an emotional reaction to whatever it is you're asking or trying to have a conversation about.
[00:25:23] But don't be throwing off because I'm just putting on my business hat to give you the data that you need in this particular time and I'll take it back off when that question is done, right?
[00:25:32] Victoria Jenn: I'm so ready for this next question. Like get ready. Buckle up. All right. And this is for the group. Hold on to it. All right. So, we hear a lot of men talking about wanting a submissive woman. Is that true? If so, what does that mean and what does it look like? [00:26:00] [00:27:00]
[00:27:25] Cara Alwill: Because we don't know what the hell it means. We just get like triggered like crazy when we hear that term.
[00:27:30] Victoria Jenn: Triggered.
[00:27:31] Cara Alwill: But other people, I actually want to hear from a man. Like what does that mean? What does it mean?
[00:27:33] Victoria Jenn: Yeah. What does it mean to you?
[00:27:34] Swale: Submissive woman. Mm hmm. Do I want a submissive woman?
[00:27:38] Cara Alwill: Well, yes, that's part one, and then part two of the question is, what does it look like for a woman to be submissive, if you want that?
[00:27:38] Swale: Troy asks, what's the definition of submissive?
[00:27:38] Cara Alwill: We don't know. We're asking you guys. How
[00:27:38] Victoria Jenn: do you define it? How do you define it?
[00:27:38] Swale: That's what I'm saying.
[00:27:38] Dren Starr: Like, listen, it's not to me. That's not even an issue. I never even thought about that. Like, so I don't know where, where you got that question from.
[00:27:45] Cara Alwill: Any dating book.
[00:27:46] Victoria Jenn: Trent, stop it right now. Stop it right now.
[00:27:49] Cara Alwill: Any dating book. Any YouTube video.
[00:27:50] Victoria Jenn: Stop with the nonsense.
[00:27:51] Swale: Listen. I, listen. Listen. Troy and I, we talked about it.
[00:27:54] Cara Alwill: They don't want to get in trouble.
[00:27:55] Victoria Jenn: I know, that's what it is.
[00:27:56] Swale: I've, no, no, no. I've never been in a conversation with any of my [00:28:00] homeboys or dudes and they say, yo, I found this girl.
[00:28:04] And then one of them respond like, but is she submissive though? That's
[00:28:07] Cara Alwill: what I'm, that's
[00:28:09] Swale: what I'm, like, it never happened.
[00:28:12] Cara Alwill: If you read any dating book or listen to any male dating coach, they all talk about this. They're like, what happened to all the submissive women? And we're like, what the fuck? I got to pay my rent.
[00:28:21] Like, I can't be like rubbing your feet every day. I mean when I want to.
[00:28:27] Swale: So let me say this.
[00:28:28] Um,
[00:28:28] I don't like to be disrespected. I don't take disrespect in any form. Um, inside or outside of my house. If I'm asking you to be respectful, and I think we have to talk about the word submissive. Before we put it in this relationship contest, it was pets that we talk about, like dogs being submissive.
[00:28:44] And I can imagine how there's a negative connotation associated with it. And maybe it's the word that I'm against, the word. Um, the challenge I have, uh, Women tend to want leadership, men who take on the lead. Um, but they fight against the [00:29:00] idea of it because if somebody is leading, going back to the whole alpha alpha thing, if somebody is leading, that means somebody has to follow.
[00:29:09] Right. Um, and I think for, for, for a lot of, I was just about to speak for women, um, don't get jumped. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I caught
[00:29:17] Cara Alwill: myself. Everyone's getting arrested after this panel.
[00:29:22] Victoria Jenn: It's, it's
[00:29:23] Swale: safe space. It's, it's easy to say, I want my man to be able to do these things for me and, and decide like when we go out to eat to, to, to pick my meals for me and until it becomes he's a narcissist.
[00:29:36] Oh, like he doesn't even give me an opportunity to think. And I don't even feel like I have a voice in this relationship. So it's like, there's this thin line between this ideal man. And when he shows up, You assign these other things to him. He's gaslighting, and it's like, where's these, like, and it becomes a thing.
[00:29:54] So now, men are scared to be men because the guy, I can't remember his name, who was up here earlier, is like, um, Women were saying, I want a man to take control, but if he does, then it's like, did he [00:30:00] take too much control? And is, is he now teetering on me too? Like, what, what is I
[00:30:05] Cara Alwill: actually want to touch on that, honestly.
[00:30:07] I made like a mental note, if you don't mind. Because this is an issue my male friends have told me about. They're like Because of Me Too, it's shifted things, right? And it's an important movement, but I think a lot of men feel nervous to hit on women, right? Like, let's say, especially in a business situation, right?
[00:30:22] You're working with somebody, so like, Dren, I don't know how you met your partner, but I think a lot of guys are, and I've heard this from their mouths, they're like, well, I don't want to, like, hit on her or ask her on a date because she might go to HR, right? Or she might get offended by this, or she might, like, Posts about me and like ruin my brand or my reputation.
[00:30:39] So I actually understand that that could be a concern I just want to hear from you guys what you think
[00:30:43] Dren Starr: Well me I met my partner before we were, you know working together on the same team But yeah, that's that's how I met my partner But oh, yeah to also touch on something. Um, like the whole social media thing like I don't Post her like that.
[00:30:53] You know what I'm saying? Because people like to ruin good things and then, you know, a lot, a lot of the times that, that we work together. Um, if you don't [00:31:00] know what together, you don't know, like we don't do PDA. We don't, you know, all the, all the higher ups know, but the way we carry ourselves, they're like, that's dope.
[00:31:09] Like, cause that's frowned upon too. You know what I'm saying? People were, you know, in the same workplace. So like, we don't, we don't do any of that, but It's really dope because the, the, the longevity in it and just the way the experience is, is different. Like, I never experienced something so dope and natural and platonic like that.
[00:31:27] You know what I'm saying? My last relationship, she wanted to be all over my page, all over my social media. And it's funny because when me and her got together now, she, by mistake, double clicked on the one picture I forgot to delete. For my social media and that's what sparked the whole conversation and I'm like, oh, thank you I forgot to delete this one.
[00:31:45] And then before you know it we wound up together.
[00:31:47] Victoria Jenn: Oh That's how it happened interesting That'll be something we would do right like a picture of you and your ex. I mean like yeah
[00:31:59] Dren Starr: Girls [00:32:00] and double tapped it by mistake and I'm like, oh good
[00:32:03] Victoria Jenn: looking I wasn't by mistake. Yeah
[00:32:07] Dren Starr: Petty. Petty,
[00:32:10] Cara Alwill: petty, petty. Troy, let's hear, I want to hear Troy's response to this if you have one. That, do you feel that way? Is that like a real concern with single guys?
[00:32:19] Troy Bigby: Not the single guys that I know. But, I mean, it's a double edged sword. Um, I don't think any um, highly functioning, emotionally intelligent man You know, turns a blind eye to, you know, the possibilities of how things can go wrong.
[00:32:32] Um, I try not to, I guess, over rotate on any one given thing, probably, except work. But, um, admittedly, but, um, it's, it's a slippery slope. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't know, um, It's been a long time since I was in a relationship with somebody I worked with. So, um, today, I just don't, I wouldn't know how to navigate that space.
[00:32:50] Right? I think, you know, it's always, I would love to say it's always, you know, a sort of, you know, dual feeling or connection or [00:33:00] something that you see and then you, you want to figure out how to act on it, but there's no, you know, recipe or, or guidelines to how you navigate those kinds of situations.
[00:33:10] Victoria Jenn: I want to follow up to what you said earlier, Troy, about you not being ready for a relationship.
[00:33:16] Is that because of the responsibility of a relationship? Because I know you know a lot of fellas in your arena, like you talked to Soiree, who's married, happily married, has the kids. Like, do you think about, like, yo, maybe I need How old are you, Troy? I'm old. You old. So, you seasoned. I'm I'm old. You seasoned.
[00:33:33] I'm seasoned. You're seasoned. So do you ever think, like, yo, let me make a move on this, cause I'm not getting any younger?
[00:33:40] Troy Bigby: Nope.
[00:33:40] Victoria Jenn: Why not?
[00:33:41] Troy Bigby: [00:34:00] [00:35:00] Why? Why? Why cuz? Right? Like, what is the, I mean, I don't. If we're putting this into male and female terms, I don't have a biological clock per se, right? So, so, just that portion alone says that I don't have to, you know, I don't have to do any of that stuff.
[00:35:36] And I live in Edgeware, New Jersey, so there's some older mofos than me that's out here crushing it. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, anybody who knows, listen, we're in metropolitan New York, New Jersey. Um, it's not difficult to find people to date or to hang out with or to Do whatever you want with, but I, I just, when I do make that decision that I want to be in a relationship, I want to be able to give that [00:36:00] person 100 percent of what it is that they require, and I want to be able to get that in return, and so today, I'm not going to give it, right, because I don't necessarily have it to give if I'm being honest, right, I'm completely focused on I'm not This next step or this next phase in my career and selfishly for the first time I can say that that's what I want to do as opposed to putting that to the back burner.
[00:36:23] I'm not a, I'm not a lover who is partially there. So I can't be, I can't, I can't be partially, I can't be partially there for my partner in that way. So,
[00:36:36] Cara Alwill: can I ask one more follow up to this? So, have you guys heard of like the taxi cab theory? It was like on Sex and the City. If a man is ready, his light is on.
[00:36:43] Like a cab. You can hail a cab. If the light's off, it's not gonna stop for you. If the light is on, it'll stop. So the theory is that when a man is ready, he'll basically just be with the next woman. And this goes both ways, right? But he'll be with the woman that's in front of him. Or, do you think that the right woman can change a guy's [00:37:00] mind?
[00:37:00] Like, Swale, I'd love to hear from you. Like, did you feel like your partner made you think differently about relationships or are you out there like actively looking for somebody?
[00:37:10] Swale Nunez: I was never, I've never actively looked. Um, just like I've never actively found a book to read. Every book I've ever read, it came into my life organically.
[00:37:19] Victoria Jenn: Swale also was a bachelor pre marriage and every woman fell in love with him. Listen.
[00:37:27] Hey. Insider information.
[00:37:30] Swale: I will, I will tell you my, my, I've, um. Um, I've never had a problem with women loving me. My biggest problem was finding a woman I was patient enough to love back. And that's always been my challenge.
[00:37:42] Cara Alwill: That you were patient enough
[00:37:43] to love back.
[00:37:46] What does that mean, patient enough to love back? Like tell us what that means.
[00:37:50] Victoria Jenn: To deal with the
[00:37:51] shenanigans and the bullshit. He
[00:37:53] Cara Alwill: was patient enough to love her, he's saying. Unless they deal with her bullshit. I don't know. We all have
[00:37:59] our bullshit, [00:38:00] right?
[00:38:00] Swale: Well, one, I want to clear this up.
[00:38:02] Um, there's this notion that, especially when you say happily married, right? My lady tried to leave me three times this summer. Right? Um, but she can't. Come on. Let's be honest. But anyways, um, the reason I'm saying that, um, is because Relationships take work, like it, it, it's a, there's this idea that this fairy tale happens and, um, you're going to fall in love and then everything is going to be, like, just bliss.
[00:38:32] And it, it's never that, um, and out of the three times, it might not have been three, but, uh, that she wanted to, or decided that she was going to leave me, I wasn't even conscious of it. Um. Troy made a point about, like, we're, we're focused and goal oriented. I'm trying to, like, every morning I wake up, I have a responsibility to take care of my family.
[00:38:50] That is my number one priority, right? Um, and I will admit that sometimes, um, because of those blinders, I might not [00:39:00] necessarily, it takes me a while to kind of step back and kind of see everything, because I need to accomplish, like, certain things. I know the responsibility that's on me. With that said, it's like relationships in general just take work, uh, and I've worked really hard, uh, for this particular relationship.
[00:39:14] Um, just because, uh, there's children involved, uh, but beyond that, I love my lady. Um, and I know that I'm not perfect as much as I may joke about it um, But I know that we are all flawed individuals, and I think sometimes we chase this idea of perfection, and I hear stories, and I don't mean to reference you, but I was raising my hand when you were on stage, and you were talking about your new relationship, and your eyes lit up, right?
[00:39:30] And then, outside looking in, everybody's like, oh, like, I want that, right? And I wanted to, what I wanted to ask you was, what is wrong with him? No, because at some point it's going to, it's going to show itself and I don't want it to be new to you. Like that's the thing. Like we live in this idea, like, Oh, it's perfect.
[00:39:36] It's perfect until it's not. But the things that are imperfect have always been there. But if we, if we walk in the situation and be like, I see that flaw and I'm okay with it. Right. Right. And if, if we get to that early, when it comes back, I knew it was there and I moved like I, One of the conversations I have with my lady a lot is this idea of compromise.
[00:39:57] What is your compromise, right? And we [00:40:00] all have this idea, no, I shouldn't have to compromise. Unfortunately, everything in life is a compromise. Whether you admit it or not, it is a compromise. And then you have to be honest with yourself. Is this the thing I'm willing to compromise on? And if it's not, then you can do that early.
[00:40:15] But when you, when you're here and you believe in this idea, it's like, no, it's oh, he completes me and all these things. And then one morning he does something and it's not brand new. He's been doing it from the jump. But you were so caught up in this, this moment that you didn't see it when it was glaring.
[00:40:28] Then you blame him for being himself because you didn't want to see it at that moment. And I, and I think that's it. And to be honest, and I, this is the second time I'll say it, we're not superheroes. We are not any different from anybody that's out there. Um, I think the, the, the one thing we may have, um, uh, more than the next is just being self aware.
[00:40:49] I understand my flaws. I'm, I'm, I'm okay standing up here and tell you I'm wrong with this, this, this, and this, and this. And if I tell you and you don't want to see it, you cannot blame me for it when you finally decide to see it, right? [00:41:00] And that's, that's, again, that's a conversation you have to have with yourself.
[00:41:02] What's the mirror
[00:41:03] Cara Alwill: work? Yeah. So do you think, so this is like a big question, do you guys think that, cause I'm hearing this and tell me if I'm hearing it right, like, do women have unrealistic expectations of
[00:41:04] Swale: men?
[00:41:04] Victoria Jenn: Hey,
[00:41:04] shout out to DJ legend. DJ
[00:41:04] Girl 5: agrees.
[00:41:04] Victoria Jenn: I'm done preaching. I'm done preaching. Okay. So let's, let's move into the final question. Cause we got a minute left. I would love to hear from you guys how women should talk to fellas about therapy. Let's say they're in a relationship, they're dating someone, or maybe it's a family member, somebody they care about, and they believe that therapy is a valid solution to help them get through whatever they're going through.
[00:41:27] How can they speak to folks about that? Well, to men in particular, about that with. Especially when, at least for me, especially with men of color, there is an automatic armor that is put up whenever therapy is brought up. So, what are some tangible tips you can give, uh, to have those type of difficult conversations with people that you're pursuing or in a relationship
[00:41:48] Troy Bigby: Um, so, I've been doing therapy for like three years. Um, I
[00:41:53] Music 2: have,
[00:41:57] Troy Bigby: almost every man or friend that I have has done [00:42:00] therapy. You heard Dren say it, Swale. All of our guy friends, who I think again are, um, highly aware, feel that there's something that, that's there. It is not an easy discussion. I mean, I've tried to ask even my mother to get therapy, but it's, it's a, it's, it's a double edged sword, right?
[00:42:16] I think, you know, to Swale's point, you really have to be self aware and want to know, you know, what you need to work on, or what your flaws are, or what you're trying to accomplish to accept therapy. Um, but most people live in a fantasy world where they think, you know, I'm okay with the flaws, right? I think, you know, one of my tenants is never really being comfortable.
[00:42:36] So, I need to exist in a space of constant uncomfortability, right? Like, I have to have a challenge, I have to, um, be working on something. I never want to become stagnant, right? Um, but most people, uh, are comfortable being stagnant. And, and so I think when it comes to therapy, you're never going to get someone to go and do what they don't want to do.
[00:42:55] Right? I used to use the analogy a long time ago. I'm like, you know, you meet a guy, they watch football on [00:43:00] Sundays, you get with them, they're still watching football on Sundays, you get married and you want to go to the supermarket when they're watching football. Right? You got into this knowing that he watched football on Sunday.
[00:43:10] Why do you think that he wants to go to the supermarket all of a sudden when football's on, on Sunday? Right? It's, yeah, it's, it's, but you know, and I say that because I want to put it in simple terms. You know, a lot of the times, a lot of times we as people talk over, right? But that's something that everybody can kind of resonate with if you've been with somebody, right?
[00:43:29] They have a habit, you know, you don't necessarily like the habit, you want them to not do the habit. And so if you can't get them to not do it on their own, you impose something to get them out of that habit by your necessity, per se, or need. And with therapy, it's one of those things that you have to go into it eyes wide open.
[00:43:47] Right? Um, you know, most therapists want you to talk. They listen. Um, some, you know, I'll say, you know, people like Phil Stutz, for instance, their methodology is here's the issue that you have. Uh, there's a [00:44:00] resolution or a way to go about looking at that and doing some self work. Um, and getting that to kind of fix itself or you fix it.
[00:44:08] But it really has to be of someone's own volition. They have to want to make the effort either for themselves or for the people that they love. Right? Um, to make the change. And other than that, I don't think it's really possible to get somebody to do something that they don't want to do.
[00:44:22] Dren Starr: when you're ready to do the work yourself, I think it's so much easier because it just solves a level of evolution. And if you got to speak to a man to go to therapy, listen, he didn't evolve yet.
[00:44:33] He's still, he's still for the streets, he's on the block. None of my man Troy, because he's got therapy. But if you got to speak to homie to get therapy, like that, that in itself is very, very telling. You know what I'm saying? He should be wanting to get the help himself.
[00:44:45] Cara Alwill: That's a great point.
[00:44:47] Victoria Jenn: Yeah, and I think a great way to Lock down this conversation because we can keep going and going and going.
[00:44:52] I just want to thank each of you for your vulnerability.
[00:44:54] Cara Alwill: Yes, thank you guys. You got something to
[00:44:56] Swale: say, Wale? Yeah, just some therapy. Uh, two um, therapists are good therapists. [00:45:00] And it could be worse than it, than be beneficial. So we got to be mindful of that. And then I, I saw a documentary over the summer, um, and it was a lawyer who's talking, a divorce lawyer talking about marriages.
[00:45:11] If you haven't seen it, it's a beautiful. It's an amazing documentary. Um, but he said something. He says people tend to lie to their therapist, but they won't lie to their lawyer. Um, so what, what, when you tell people go to therapy, they give the therapist their version of the story and it's not authentic, right?
[00:45:27] So as much as it's cleansing and it should be when it's based on a lie. You can't get truth out of it, right? So, again, when you, it's easy to say go to therapy, but be honest in therapy as well. And I, I think you cannot tell somebody to go to therapy. Without telling them, be authentic in that space as well.
[00:45:43] Victoria Jenn: That's a great point. I love that. All right, well thank you so much fellas. Thank you guys.
[00:45:49] [00:46:00]
[00:46:02] Victoria Jenn: So, so what ultimately, like,
[00:46:02] Crystal Etienne: um,
[00:46:02] Victoria: Thanks for listening to today's episode. Don't forget to make sure and leave a review. This is super important because this is how we're measured on the different audio platforms. So if you want to hear more of Banking en Cultura, if you were vibing, if you had takeaways, if you just enjoyed this episode, please make sure to leave a review.
[00:46:22] I appreciate you so much. Until next time.